Changing Aug

[Eternal1]

You're right Meier. People can play however they please. I think I conceded the fact that people who are diehard char trainers have kept the game going monetarily. My point is that I believe the game should have allowed for turnover. The focus should have been to get/keep new players coming in....not retaining veterans. There will be a point where characters will have to be capped (how ridiculous it gets is beyond me). Back when two majors could kill any other major on...the game was more dynamic...thats just the truth. Again, I am not trying to trash on all the big characters...they are motivated that's all. However, I reiterate, the game should have been built to encourage turnover. If you "max" your character and no longer want to play because you can't get any bigger....you don't like the game.....really. Wars and tactics and quests and eq hunting should keep the game alive....not mindless botting. Peace

[Meier]

Originally Posted by Eternal1

You're right Meier. People can play however they please. I think I conceded the fact that people who are diehard char trainers have kept the game going monetarily. My point is that I believe the game should have allowed for turnover. The focus should have been to get/keep new players coming in....not retaining veterans. There will be a point where characters will have to be capped (how ridiculous it gets is beyond me). Back when two majors could kill any other major on...the game was more dynamic...thats just the truth. Again, I am not trying to trash on all the big characters...they are motivated that's all. However, I reiterate, the game should have been built to encourage turnover. If you "max" your character and no longer want to play because you can't get any bigger....you don't like the game.....really. Wars and tactics and quests and eq hunting should keep the game alive....not mindless botting. Peace

I believe we need to focus on recruiting and keeping new players as well as retaining our veterans too, NOT just one or the other. Which Nijlo has been doing with all these updates lately, it's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. And Eternal I enjoy this game very much, but I will like to continue to see my character grow over many more years on Nodeka.

[Bree]

Originally Posted by Meier

I believe we need to focus on recruiting and keeping new players as well as retaining our veterans too, NOT just one or the other. Which Nijlo has been doing with all these updates lately, it's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. And Eternal I enjoy this game very much, but I will like to continue to see my character grow over many more years on Nodeka.

Nodeka should just go public so Meier can buy some stock and stop fucking the game up.

[Bihzad]

I will like to continue to see my character grow over many more years on Nodeka.

I think this is part of the problem. After a certain point, all you can do is grow your character.

Don't get me wrong, I love Nodeka, and think it's one of the best games I've ever played, but I wish there were something to use that size on besides simply infinitely growing and making such a player power-imbalance. It would be nice if there were something creating opposing sides and large benefits for joining, aiding and promoting members of a given faction, a la WoW (Horde, Alliance). Then you'd see large groups pking (large and smaller characters grouped together). I know morality was an attempt, but it didn't cement a sense of community amongst members of a given morality.

[Iblis]

Originally Posted by Meier

I believe we need to focus on recruiting and keeping new players as well as retaining our veterans too, NOT just one or the other.

We haven't kept the veterans though, Meier. Most of them left a long time ago, or play just sporadically.

I'd dare say more veterans would come back if augments (and this new completely insanely unbalanceable practice thing) were removed entirely.

Also, new players would certainly stick around much longer if they didn't look at the insane player sizes, do the math, and figure out that it would take them wayyy too much time to compete.

So yeah, if we want to focus on keeping new players and not only retaining veterans, but getting them to come back and play, then get rid of the factors that require 24-hour botting (or close to it) and create huge player gaps.

Essentially I guess I agree with you, but you just seem to be confusing the word 'veterans' with 'botters'.

Sure, a couple of botters would quit maybe, as Blitz said, change is never easy to accept. But lets face it, we could get Ody to log on his multies and sit there botting to achieve the same affect as having all the other botters give us anyway, right?

-!Iblis.

[Iblis]

Originally Posted by Bihzad

I think this is part of the problem. After a certain point, all you can do is grow your character.

Don't get me wrong, I love Nodeka, and think it's one of the best games I've ever played, but I wish there were something to use that size on besides simply infinitely growing and making such a player power-imbalance. It would be nice if there were something creating opposing sides and large benefits for joining, aiding and promoting members of a given faction, a la WoW (Horde, Alliance). Then you'd see large groups pking (large and smaller characters grouped together). I know morality was an attempt, but it didn't cement a sense of community amongst members of a given morality.

Bihzad,

There were once wars, heh, before changes made Nodeka so botter-conducive that a good proportion of those who didn't bot simply quit.

Why does no one fight and everyone get emo when killed now? Simple. When you're fighting or getting killed you can't bot. When you can't bot, you can't grow. When you can't grow, you stand no chance of ever bridging that gap.

So everyone bots.

-Iblis.

[Torment]

Heh, to get to the bigger char sizes, you'd need prolly about 10 years of 24/7 botting, if your not donating. I agree with Iblis on this one, and eternal, but how long are donators gonna donate, when these changes are getting insane, I mean nodeka used to be a casual game, then came the botters, anyone remember pking for an hour running an hour till attacked then pking a couple more hours? If your 1. In ainur, or 2. havn't played over a few years then your missing the fun that nodeka used to be about. I for one havn't donated in months nor logged in the past 3 months for more than 10 minutes at best, and I've ( along with a few others) have been die hard nodeka fans for 7+ years. What I really think needs to happen is for the Immortals to try and get opinions of the people who been carrying this game for years for which way the game should go. But hey, why keep around loyal players, just let them fall off the map.

[Eternal1]

It scares me when I agree with Iblis.....but he's right. This is a pk mud and the wars we used to have were fun.....even if people degraded each other. It's a game....and people take it too seriously now, precisely because they are trying to keep up. There aren't even any assholes left.....everyone just plays nice so they can bot all day. Again, I understand that the donators keep this game going in some sense....but if we got rid of augment (the change that ruined the game) and some of the other more ridiculous things.....Nijlo would find another way to coax people into donating. The problem is people are too lazy, would rather bot...and maintain their huge size disparity. The game will continue to lose more veteran players who actually PLAY if it continues in the current direction. Peace

[manifesto]

Important changes will ultimately be stopped because like eternal said at some point, people absolutley have to be the top of the food chain so they can run their mouth, bot, and basically do anything they want without any check or balance.

What incentives does augmenting really provide?
Augmenting in the end will keep the people botting regardless of any other things put in place to try and diverge people doing this activity 100%.
Because why?
1.) How can there be any pking with players so big that you stand a better chance running into a brick wall in real life.
2.) People try and constantly close this gap so there might be some resemblance of pking.
As people suggested, we have nothing but a mud of passive hermit crab botters.

To me, all I can see is people who are so power hungry and selfish that they would rather see nodeka fall to the fiery pits of hell then try and compromise with the immortals.

I think everyone can understand that you guys have put many hours and many dollars into getting to that size.

Does that mean you have the right to bring this mud down with you?

[Iblis]

Heh, you know that something is really wrong with Nodeka when Eternal and Torment start agreeing with me.

Manifesto described the problem quite well really.

Funny how Meier's skewed logic of how this is good for Nodeka does not seem to include an explanation of how allowing him (and the other 1% or so of players around that size) to grow even bigger actually helps Nodeka as a game.

-Iblis.